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[08:03:12 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: is there any assembla ticket for oer commons accessibility issues that you prefer me to work on? or, i will pick one myself.

[08:04:38 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli: how about this one?

[08:04:54 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> ok, michelled

[08:08:58 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli: did Andrey put in your pull requet?

[08:09:12 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> not yet, michelled

[08:09:52 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli: had you sent him an e-mail about it?

[08:09:58 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> or assigned the assembla ticket to him?

[08:10:19 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: didn't send email but assigned the assembla ticket to him

[08:10:39 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> and he didn't comment on the ticket or anything?

[08:10:47 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> no

[08:10:50 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> maybe i should send the email as well. sending now.

[08:11:03 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> thanks!

[08:13:10 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> np

[09:09:11 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled, anastasiac: my pull request for #545 has been merged into "staging" branch

[09:19:41 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> that's great cindyli! do you know how often staging gets rebuilt?

[09:28:00 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> i don't know, michelled

[09:51:19 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli: I'm no longer seeing the error on IE8 - has it been fixed?

[09:52:15 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: not completely, i'm still seeing some errors on IE8

[09:52:32 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> the one that was report in the ticket has been fixed

[09:52:53 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> how can I see the error?

[09:55:11 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: IE8 -> internet options -> "Advanced" tab -> "Browsing" section -> turn on the option "display a notification about every script error"

[09:56:53 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli: thx - but what do I need to do to cause an error? I'm not seeing any on staging

[09:57:17 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: refresh any page

[09:57:24 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> within oer commons

[09:58:33 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> interesting. I got an error on all pages at refresh.

[09:59:26 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled: u r right, michelled, staging site is fine. the error only occurs on my local installation

[09:59:52 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> oh, interesting - anyway, good to know it's fixed

[10:00:01 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> I guess you can comment on that assembla issue

[10:00:04 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> yes

[11:35:44 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: I can't tell from your chat if the jQuery accordion has aria markup in it or not. Or rather, when does it work with Orca, and when does it not?

[11:35:45 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Also, I assume you are using FF on linux for these tests, right Justin_o?

[11:35:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: yes.. firefox

[11:35:46 CDT(-0500)] <clown> I'm going to guess that FF is pushing out the correct info to AT-SPI then. Did you check that?

[11:36:14 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: my understanding is that both versions of the accordion have aria, but maybe not all the versions o the tabs demos..

[11:36:24 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> no i didn't check the at-spi output yet

[11:37:04 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: I don't understand "both versions of the accordion have aria, but not all versions of the tabs demo" tabs = accordion?

[11:37:51 CDT(-0500)] * clown waves at avtar

[11:38:03 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> hi hi

[11:38:45 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> no i think they are different jQuery UI widgets.. i'm specifically using an accordion in decapod.. but scott also had me test out the tabs widget.. the one from master and one from the experimental pull request..

[11:39:31 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> in the end they both had the same problem but one of the them was with up/down arrow and the other with left/right arrow keys..

[11:39:35 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Okay, what is an accordion? and what is a tabs widget? I ask because how they are defined in aria may differ, Justin_o.

[11:40:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: okay.. here's a link to the jQuery UI Accordion and to the tabs

[11:40:45 CDT(-0500)] * clown loading

[11:41:58 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: as far as aria is concerned, those both have role 'tablist'.

[11:43:00 CDT(-0500)] <clown> and associated tabs and tabpanels.

[11:43:01 CDT(-0500)] <clown> the reason is that only one tab/header is selected at a time.

[11:43:15 CDT(-0500)] <clown> for aria and "accordion" allows multiple headers to open at once.

[11:43:25 CDT(-0500)] <clown> "an accordion", not "and".

[11:44:52 CDT(-0500)] <clown> here is an example of an accordion in the aria sense: (note that you can open multiple headers).

[11:45:45 CDT(-0500)] <clown> but, I suspect no this has little to do with your problem with Orca.

[11:45:51 CDT(-0500)] <clown> "suspect now".

[11:46:09 CDT(-0500)] * clown fires up virtual box

[11:46:37 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: okay.. i'm going to try those demos with orca now.. was setting it up in a vm again

[11:50:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: from what i can see the examples you sent also have problems with ORCA. The accordion will work, but pressing up/down will read each line of the contents of the accordion panel before getting to the next header

[11:50:39 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: for the tabs left/right will read letter by letter and when the next tab has focus, enter/space won't activate it

[11:52:19 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: okay, I just got my vm up and running and a version of orca (v3.2.1) I'm going to try the first oaa tab list demo.

[11:53:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: thanks.. also just double checked my version.. looks like Ubuntu 10.04 ships with Orca 2.30.2

[11:54:16 CDT(-0500)] <clown> harumph … that's old.

[11:54:26 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> yes.. looks like it

[11:54:31 CDT(-0500)] <clown> but, I think I'm seeing the same thing with 3.2.1

[11:54:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: okay.. that's good and bad news i guess

[11:55:25 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: I'm going to look at Orca's prefs now to see if there is something about key strokes.

[11:55:37 CDT(-0500)] <clown> but, I believe I shouldn't have to do this.

[11:55:48 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: okay.. thanks

[11:57:13 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: do you know what the "Orca" key is, by chance?

[11:57:29 CDT(-0500)] * clown is red-faced due to his ignorance.

[11:57:38 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> avtar: hello.. i'm creating an ubuntu vm for our decapod partners in Nigeria. I figure this will be generally useful for our users to download instead of running the install. At least till we have a better plan for our installation. I'm wondering if we have somewhere I can host it now?

[11:58:12 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: never mind — you can set in Orca's preferences...

[11:58:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: (smile) i was just looking for which tab it was under

[11:59:10 CDT(-0500)] <clown> "Key bindings"

[12:01:32 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: thanks

[12:08:51 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: FYI I've tried a GTK tab panel with Orca, and it works as expected with left/rght arrows. So, the issue is specific to DHTML tab panels. (You may already know that).

[12:09:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: good to know.. i hadn't tried that yet

[12:10:52 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: this is odd. Orca worked fine with the OAA example when I used control-arrow to move among the tabs. But, that worked only once.

[12:11:58 CDT(-0500)] <clown> correction: it moves focus among the tabs, but it doesn't "select" it.

[12:13:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: i think i'm getting the same.. i can't actually open the tab panel

[12:16:05 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, I've pushed a branch with an improvement for assemble 546, the 'add t his' popup: This is ready for merging into staging

[12:16:38 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> thanks anastasiac

[12:17:03 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> anastasiac: do you want to start looking into the rating widget?

[12:17:35 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> michelled, cindyli, alexn: I'm looking at our list of assemble tickets and I can't tell who's working on what. Could you let me know what you're working on, so I can pick something to do?

[12:18:05 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> anastasiac: i'm working on #548 -

[12:18:20 CDT(-0500)] <anastasiac> sorry michelled, didn't see your post. bess, I'll look at 553

[12:18:30 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> thanks!

[12:19:50 CDT(-0500)] <alexn> I'm going to start working on #551

[12:21:45 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: taking a break to have lunch — I'll look at it further on and off this afternoon.

[12:22:59 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: thanks a bunch for the help with this

[12:33:21 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> Justin_o: we should have plenty of resources to host images on. i believe that i'll have a status meeting with some of the nebula engineers this week and get set up with accounts that i'll use to collaborate with them; when did you want to start hosting the vm?

[12:34:35 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> avtar: as early as tomorrow but it can probably wait a bit

[12:41:20 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> avtar: on a side note one or our decapod germany team members is having a problem cloning from googlecode. it's throwing an error about the certificate. seems to only be happening on Ubuntu 12.04. I don't have a copy of that yet, so can't test it. Was wondering if you've heard anything about these types of issues

[12:42:37 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> Justin_o: what's the error?

[12:43:07 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> abort: certificate error: certificate is for *., *.,, *., *., (use --insecure to connect insecurely)

[12:43:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> avtar: he tried running both of the following commands with the same result

[12:43:54 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> hg clone -r decapod-0.5 decapod-0.5

[12:44:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> hg clone -r decapod-0.5 decapod-0.5

[12:54:08 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: I'm guessing the answer is "no", but have you checked Orca's bugzilla data base?

[12:54:16 CDT(-0500)] <clown> for this particular problem?

[12:55:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: good guess (smile) i haven't yet.. probably should have.. i sort of thought i might be doing something wrong

[12:56:27 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Yah, Justin_o, I know the feeling. "It's not working, so it must be my fault."

[12:56:36 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Hi Justin_o and jhung. (smile)

[12:56:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: hello… how are you doing

[12:57:13 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: I'm doing alright. How about you?

[12:58:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: not too bad… ran into a curious screen reader issue the other day.. still trying to track it down now

[13:01:13 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: i think jon is in and out at the moment.. so i guess we can just get started without him and he can catch up on the logs

[13:01:22 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Alright, sounds good! (smile)

[13:01:36 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: how are things coming along so far?

[13:02:02 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: I actually deviated a bit from the plan. I finished the planning out of the data and then wrote a bunch of jqunit tests for it.

[13:02:37 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: So this is basically the result:

[13:02:40 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: okay.. so you have plan for the json export?

[13:03:15 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Yeah, as far as the object planned out with how it's going to interact with the class.

[13:03:58 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: I couldn't really figure out what direction to go in with the repo though, as far as if I should create a new ImageEditor, or just a plugin similar to TaggerUI or CropperUI for the adjustments.

[13:06:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: interesting… we're sort of looking for something new.. so you don't have to be bound into having it work inside the old system.. it should be constructed in a way that it is modular enough to be used in different systems.. does that help.. or more confusing?

[13:07:25 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: That helps. That just means I'm on the right track with a plugin, and then I can make another ImageEditor type repo to work with it?

[13:08:51 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: sure you can do that… in terms of our framework.. that line can be blurred as any component can be used as a child component of something else

[13:09:04 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Gotcha.

[13:09:16 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> Justin_o: i just tried it in a new 12.04 vm. looks like he'll need to create an ~/.hgrc (or edit his existing) file and add the following:

[13:09:34 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: i have a question.. what does this test "Adjustments has setBrightness function"

[13:09:40 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> Justin_o:

[13:10:07 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: It'll test for a method of setBrightness that will set the brightness value.

[13:10:25 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Probably won't be named Adjustments though...

[13:10:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> avtar: thanks for figuring that out.. kind of annoying to have to do that though.. is this a bug or a new security feature?

[13:10:42 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> seems like it's the latter

[13:11:34 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> check out the second note here

[13:11:57 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Here's the code:

[13:13:02 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> avtar: ah so it's because of mercurial.. thanks for that

[13:13:08 CDT(-0500)] <avtar> np

[13:18:53 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: thanks.. i see now.. you are just checking if it has a property of that name.. okay..

[13:18:59 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig: did you get the email I sent you last week re: deskew. Did that make sense?

[13:19:33 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: what are you expecting the return value to be for setBrightness

[13:19:57 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> jhung: Yes, that made sense. Essentially I was thinking of removing the skew button and adding '90 CW' and '90 CCW' to the rotate menu to accommodate. Is that similar to what you had in mind?

[13:20:37 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: It's just supposed to set the brightness to an out of bounds number so that I can test to see if the validation works where it will just set it to the closest value within bounds.

[13:20:52 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Yes that would work asteig.

[13:21:26 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: this seems close, but Orca developers are blaming FF:

[13:23:30 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: okay.. the function itself will return the set value?

[13:24:17 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: I don't know, haven't really thought that out. It's just a setter, so set value sounds good.

[13:24:36 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> tell Justin_o: Gotcha though, I'm checking for a boolean in the test.

[13:24:52 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> LOL, minus the tell command. (smile)

[13:24:58 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: (smile)

[13:27:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: you might want to just split those off into separate tests.. it will be easier to track down issues too

[13:27:18 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Good suggestion.

[13:28:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: ah the blame game.. thanks for digging this up..

[13:29:49 CDT(-0500)] <jessm> jhung: Justin_o: congrats on the release guys – good work!

[13:30:10 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o, jhung: Oh, I wrote a blog post! It's just in draft form though, in case you want me to add anything or change something.

[13:30:13 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> thanks jessm

[13:30:33 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Asteig: sure! Pass it along.

[13:30:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jessm: thank you.. (smile)

[13:30:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: yep would love to see it

[13:31:45 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> jhung: It's saved in Fluid Studios:;action=edit

[13:32:13 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig. hmmm I guess I need a login. (big grin)

[13:32:29 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: I'm amazed that the codetalks link still works. Anyhow, if you try it, it messes up in a different way. Orca still navigates among the letters of the tab name, but, at either end, it does move focus to the next/previous tab, and opens the associated tab panel.

[13:32:36 CDT(-0500)] * clown would love consistency...

[13:33:33 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> jhung: I can email a copy if it's easier.

[13:35:08 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: (smile) this is similar to the behaviour that the newer code that the scott was showing me..

[13:35:24 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: i'm getting him set up with an account there.. so should be okay..

[13:37:13 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_o: thanks for setting up the account.

[13:37:21 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig: I can see the post.

[13:37:36 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o, jhung: Just realized I'm a little ahead of myself on the timeline.

[13:38:08 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o, jhung: I plan on starting to implement the first feature and having a set of classes pass this week.

[13:38:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: i'm happy with the post, i guess you can updated with links and etc as time goes on

[13:38:26 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> classes = tests. :-p

[13:38:44 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: (smile) that's what happens after you finish finals

[13:38:55 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> or during finals maybe (smile)

[13:40:00 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: do you know about jslint?

[13:40:12 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: I know OF it, but I've never used it.

[13:40:36 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: just noticed another quirk: when you mouse over the tabs in the OAA or codetalks example, the mouse cursor image changes to the i-beam. But, if I mouse over a "real" tab panel, the mouse image doesn't change.

[13:41:04 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Note: this happens even in the Mac version of FF.

[13:41:23 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: css maybe?

[13:41:52 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: okay.. it's a handy tool to use to keep things clean and consistent, as well as to catch syntax errors and other common issues

[13:41:53 CDT(-0500)] <clown> Justin_o: maybe. how does one use CSS to change the mouse cursor image.

[13:41:55 CDT(-0500)] <clown> ?

[13:42:20 CDT(-0500)] <clown> or, are you saying that the author has to use CSS in this case?

[13:43:10 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: the main one can be found at although we use our own variant of it

[13:44:06 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Cool, I can use the extra time to read up on it and use it. :

[13:44:08 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> (smile)

[13:44:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: cool.. if you happen to use ours.. you can add this comment to the top and it will automatically run with our typical settings..

[13:44:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o>

[13:45:16 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> we also have a convention of using 4 spaces instead of tabs, not sure what you have been using so far

[13:45:42 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: another tool that will be useful once you start building the app is

[13:46:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> although i don't think it works with canvas elements yet

[13:46:54 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Bookmarked. (smile)

[13:47:04 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: (smile) great

[13:49:26 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o, jhung: Anything else you guys want to go over? (smile)

[13:50:21 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: do you have any questions or concerns about anything so far?

[13:50:32 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig. Do you have a link to your spec? I was trying to find it, but lost it my pile of emails.

[13:51:01 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> jhung:

[13:51:19 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: I will probably definitely have questions this week, so I'll let you know. Right now I'm good though.

[13:52:46 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> asteig: Thanks. I don't think I have anything right now.

[13:53:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: good to hear.. ping me whenever you have a question. also we'll be having a community meeting this wednesday at 2:30 EDT

[13:53:47 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> you are welcome to join, we can Skype you in if you like

[13:54:05 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o: Okay, sounds good. (smile)

[13:54:18 CDT(-0500)] <asteig> Justin_o, jhung: See you guys later. Grabbing some coffee. :-p

[13:54:22 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig:

[13:54:29 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> asteig: talk to you later

[13:54:53 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> astieg: see you.

[14:03:08 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: so not sure if you saw, but hasan ran into an issue when trying to install decapod in Ubuntu 12.04

[14:04:18 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Justin_o: oh?

[14:04:45 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> justin_O I didn't get that. Did he email it?

[14:05:09 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> i was chatting with him over IM and talking to avtar about it here..

[14:06:24 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: so in a nutshell Ubuntu 12.04 is using an updated version of mercurial which has a new security feature. Users will now need to add in googlecode's host fingerprint into their .hgrc file in order to checkout code

[14:07:19 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: it's annoying but probably okay for someone savvy enough to want to get at the source, but for the average user it may be a bit much..

[14:07:47 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Okay. Maybe worth documenting in the install notes.

[14:07:55 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: I think we'll have to start solving our install issues for 0.6 since i think we plan to switch to Ubuntu 12.04 by then

[14:08:12 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: yes.. definitely we should document it

[14:11:10 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> k.

[14:12:33 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> michelled, my pull request for tab order fix (ticket #548) was submitted and merged into "staging" branch - Andrey is surprisingly still on duty. Any preference of the next I shall work on?

[14:16:15 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: i added a line to the download and installation page

[14:16:25 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> it's in the note that says you need Mercurial

[14:16:54 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> Got it. Looks okay justin_o

[14:17:50 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: thanks.. so i'll try to chat with avtar about installation when he's free, did you want to be in on those conversations too?

[14:18:27 CDT(-0500)] <jhung> I'll pass justin_o. I was going to work on documentation that was going to accompany the materials to Nigeria.

[14:18:57 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> jhung: okay.. it won't be today but might be tomorrow

[14:22:01 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> cindyli:

[14:22:13 CDT(-0500)] <cindyli> ok, michelled

[14:22:19 CDT(-0500)] <michelled> thanks!

[14:30:49 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown:

[14:33:03 CDT(-0500)] <Justin_o> clown: in the OAA demos i'm seeing the i-bar when over the text of the tabs only, but not the blank space

[16:57:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: The directory structure issue for the GPII is an interesting one

[16:57:37 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Hi, colinclark

[16:57:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I suspect that we never fully established what I want to call "consensus clarity" on the issue, back in Boulder (wink)

[16:57:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think your point is clear

[16:58:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We have something that minimally works, and should be done consistently across Windows and Linux

[16:58:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That's cool

[16:58:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I sort of freaked, thinking, "what impact will this have on Jim!" for tomorrow

[16:58:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Sure

[16:58:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but it occurs to me that it probably shouldn't

[16:58:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Thankfully pull requests don't exist in a synchronous continuum (smile)

[16:58:35 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> your pull requests are a model of how they should be done

[16:58:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[16:58:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anyway, I'm going to get everything working

[16:58:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> for jim

[16:59:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What can I do to help out?

[16:59:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> then we can figure out whether we actually want node-driven, cross platform scripts for this kind of thing

[16:59:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think right now, I'm cool

[16:59:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> But I will ping you if I have any questions

[16:59:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hopefully I can get it working before yoga

[16:59:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> if not, i'll do yoga on my living room floor (smile)

[16:59:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Can you convince Windows XP to stop threatening to reboot my VM in 15 minutes?

[17:00:15 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> hahaha

[17:00:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Disable all the updates? : P

[17:00:29 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Always the first thing I do with any Windows installation

[17:00:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[17:01:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm just realizing Mork's stuff doesn't run on XP either (sad)

[17:01:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't know if Jim was planning to demo RFID

[17:02:18 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And it's more than just sticking the redistributables in the same directory can fix?

[17:25:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hey thealphanerd, you were asking me a question earlier today?

[17:29:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Looks like it does work okay on XP after all

[17:29:10 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> yeah I was curious about what the decision was regarding polyphony

[17:29:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> who knows what it was?

[17:29:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd: Oh yes

[17:29:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Whether you should add support for multiple voices now or later, was that it?

[17:40:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd: ^

[17:50:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Windows XP is turning out to be a bit more subtle than I had thought it would be

[17:51:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> your fix, for the record, works wonderfully

[17:53:37 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'm glad

[17:53:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What subtleties are you encountering, colinclark?

[17:54:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Well, for starters, the built-in Magnifier on XP is much less useful than on Windows 7

[17:54:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Ah, that's interesting

[17:54:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I didn't try that bit

[17:54:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I did notice that the default high contrast theme was quite a bit different

[17:54:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Which is what the majority of my experimentation has been on this week

[17:55:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> On XP the default high contrast theme also includes large fonts

[17:55:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> On Windows 7 it doesn't

[17:55:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> How we hate SUTTLE TEES!

[17:55:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[17:56:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't seem to see Firefox launching

[17:56:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but I was until recently running an ancient Firefox

[17:56:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so old that Github didn't quite work in it (tongue)

[17:56:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> anyway, i'll skip yoga and see if I can get this working smoothly

[17:56:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I doubt that our Firefox-lauching is terribly sound

[17:57:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> We should properly be reading a registry key to find where it is

[17:57:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Rather than just guessing wildly

[18:02:04 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ahhh

[18:02:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> that's probably it (sad)

[18:02:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I don't quite know how I'm going to be able to walk Jim through all of htis

[18:03:31 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> You might have to get him to cheat a bit and figure out where his Firefox is in advance

[18:03:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[18:03:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> There seems to be some environment-based resolution happening here

[18:04:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm not very Windows savvy

[18:04:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> How would I echo these sorts of things?

[18:04:20 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> "${{environment}.PROGRAMFILES(x86)}

[18:04:27 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: sorry for vanishing, mrs's just came home from work. I'm thinking that polyphony could be a completely seperate flocking thing…

[18:04:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> %VARIABLE%, Bosmon?

[18:04:50 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> or should it be implemented in the synth?

[18:04:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd: My sense is that Flocking provides everything you'd need for making polyphonic sound

[18:04:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> if perhaps at a slightly low level

[18:05:30 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> in the way the synth is constructed?

[18:05:33 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so you could either create multiple "branches" of ugens, one for each voice

[18:05:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and then use flock.ugen.sum to mix them together

[18:05:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> or, perhaps more easily, create multiple synths from the same definition

[18:06:24 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - that should be what you get with %PROGRAMFILES(x86)%, yes

[18:06:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But this "x86" business didn't exist on XP

[18:07:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Or rather, that path only exists on 64-bit systems

[18:07:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Should just be PROGRAMFILES

[18:08:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> right

[18:08:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> that is correct

[18:08:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> okay

[18:08:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so I'm trying to think this through

[18:08:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Shall I create a "jim-windows-xp" branch of universal for him for now?

[18:08:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I've been asking kasper to do this for awhile

[18:08:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> a while

[18:09:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That sounds reasonable to me

[18:10:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd: I'd just create multiple synths, one representing each voice

[18:10:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> either will work

[18:10:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> the former will be slightly more performant, but I don't expect it will be a lot

[18:10:55 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think you should probably organize your code a bit first

[18:10:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> as we discussed today

[18:11:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and then add multiple voices

[18:11:16 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: sounds good to me

[18:11:22 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> How exciting to be adding voices (smile)

[18:11:25 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> (smile)

[18:11:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: thealphanerd and I talked today about how to factor code into small bits

[18:12:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd is going to start by trying it himself, just with plain old jQuery and objects

[18:12:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and then we'll see how any why Infusion will help

[18:14:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Okay, so I'll make some branches and push in some changes

[18:14:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I need to figure out a cross-platform workflow

[18:14:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess the easiest thing, since I'm using a VM, is just directory sharing

[18:14:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so I have one git repo for all platforms

[18:14:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> is that what you've been doing, Bosmon?

[18:15:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess that's the other good reason behind my proposed directory layout, yes (smile)

[18:15:36 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It means that you could share your codebase into a Linux VM, for example, without getting confused

[18:16:14 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: so then I'll move forward with the changes we disussed. Although I might make a fork and play with way of implementing polyphony...

[18:16:25 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I'll let you know what I end up with

[18:16:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon:

[18:16:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Thanks, colinclark

[18:16:54 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd: That'll be a chance for you to get comfortable with a good Git workflow

[18:17:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Try making a branch for your polyphony work

[18:17:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> In the end, I imagine that you'll have a pool of voices

[18:17:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I doubt you'd have any performance problems if you just allocated a synth for each key

[18:17:52 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but most of the early synths used a pool

[18:17:56 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I guess the question is… how can I make it easier for future users of flocking to do polyphony (myself included of course)

[18:18:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> well, the first step is to solve the problem

[18:18:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> get it working and understand the scope

[18:18:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> then we can talk about how to generalize it

[18:19:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I can imagine we might make some kind of "voice queue" object that was responsible for allocating and managing multiple voices

[18:20:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: No, thank you

[18:21:55 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> colinclark: sounds like a good plan of attack

[18:22:01 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> OH

[18:22:55 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> I retract the OH

[18:23:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> OH

[18:23:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> OKAY

[18:26:13 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> sorry

[18:26:33 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> ┬──┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)

[18:34:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> is that a skate park, thealphanerd?

[18:34:47 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> no… its a meme called "putting back the table"

[18:34:56 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Would you consider the prospect of pushing my suboptimal pull request?

[18:35:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> even for my own sanity?

[18:35:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Sure

[18:35:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> To the main master, rather than to your branch for Tobias?

[18:35:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and then I'll make you the deal that I'll push yours and update Linux to be identical

[18:35:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> might as well go to the main master, since what's there is flat out broken

[18:35:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> ok

[18:35:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> and my fault for being so (sad)

[18:35:49 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> No worries

[18:35:56 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Things break all the time (smile)

[18:36:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What do you think about the proposal for a "root" project?

[18:36:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I think it is reasonable

[18:36:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Consisting of the root directory structure and checkout scripts?

[18:36:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yep, seems good to me

[18:36:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> now that you put it that way, I do remember that this is at least what you and I agreed to in Boulder

[18:36:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess it's all been a blur

[18:36:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> for all of us

[18:36:55 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I am pretty sure JURA agreed to it too

[18:37:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thealphanerd: I tend to be so behind on memes, but Bosmon has been educating me

[18:37:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Otherwise he would have been more puzzled in the conversation we had last month

[18:37:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> largely by sending me pictures of cats dressed up in suits

[18:37:12 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> you are not missing much

[18:37:14 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> When I complained about how he was loading some code in test cases

[18:37:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> interesting

[18:37:22 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> comes from the meme flipping the table (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[18:37:27 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And I said, "You wouldn't need to do this if the parent directory was named node_modules"

[18:37:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> he mentioned that he was hoping to get some time to implement some things you two had been discussing

[18:37:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Which he said was fine in principle, but shouldn't necessarily be required to run the test cases for the project

[18:37:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> but was vague at standup as to the details

[18:37:46 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Bosmon: you using npm?

[18:37:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which is fair enough

[18:37:52 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> thealphanerd - yes

[18:38:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> except in the case of node-ffi (tongue)

[18:38:07 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - I proposed to him an "intermediate architecture" based on "request grades"

[18:38:17 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I realised it would be a good compromise whilst we were waiting for IoC to be fixed

[18:38:28 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Since grades are one of the few parts of the framework which are working correctly

[18:38:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool

[18:39:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I guess if we were "aspect-y" people, we might call them aspects... or if we were "object-y" people we might call them mixins

[18:39:18 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> ok I have to run

[18:39:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But whatever we call them, at least grades will allow more than 2 of them to be mixed together

[18:39:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> see you, thealphanerd

[18:39:37 CDT(-0500)] <thealphanerd> Bosmon: I'm myles, nice to meet you. Hope to find out about your project some time soon.

[18:52:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: I guess we have a lot more thinking to do around the Solutions Registry

[18:53:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> since it is clear that a lot of the data in it need to be parameterized by platform

[18:53:12 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - certainly

[18:53:36 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> My fear is that we really need to do it before Linz

[18:55:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes

[18:56:09 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'll try to get model inversion working, which might help to situate our discussion a bit

[18:58:34 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> colinclark - I just merged

[18:58:41 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks

[18:58:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I really appreciate it

[19:03:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: Any chance you can have a quick look at this pull?

[19:03:12 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Hopefully I'm not distracting you from packing too much

[19:03:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Haven't started yet (sad)

[19:03:47 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Wow

[19:03:51 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> This one's pretty strange

[19:04:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> this is the sort of pull request that Linus would destroy me for

[19:04:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: It's fairly strange

[19:04:22 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Most conference wifi is insanely firewalled

[19:04:30 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> SHouldn't we put that machine URL as another variable?

[19:04:41 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It seems peculiar to repeat it so many times

[19:04:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> indeed we should

[19:05:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I am at this point just trying to get things to even work

[19:05:04 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But I guess this is another of those things we need to get working before tomorrow morning

[19:05:08 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yeah

[19:05:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> though I'm happy if you're willing to improve it while I keep going

[19:07:20 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Why do some of the solutions refer to firefox in a fully qualified way, and some of them just as a bare name?

[19:07:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Hmm

[19:07:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Linux vs. Windows solutions?

[19:08:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I thought that

[19:08:13 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> But it doesn't seem to be so

[19:08:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Unless I'm missing something...

[19:08:50 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Oh, you're right

[19:08:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> And we just duplicate webAnywhere

[19:08:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[19:09:03 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Last minute-ism

[19:10:44 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Well, in that spirit, I'm happy to push this : p

[19:10:57 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> We do really need to stop people doing demos though

[19:12:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> lol

[19:12:43 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> +1 for that

[19:12:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> this is working quite nicely now

[19:14:38 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: What do you think the best approach for branches like this is?

[19:14:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I imagine we actually want it to be part of the project repo

[19:15:17 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'm not quite sure what the question relates to....

[19:15:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Can one make a pull request to a branch other than master?

[19:15:23 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Oh, sorry

[19:15:25 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Oh, I see

[19:15:44 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I have this:

[19:15:58 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I guess we might like it to be a branch on the project repo, so that it's more visible

[19:16:21 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes, it seems you can issue a pull request to a branch

[19:16:42 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> In github, via the "CHANGE COMMITS" button

[19:16:43 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon>

[19:17:02 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> What is in this branch, morally?

[19:19:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> A solutions registry suited for demonstrating the GPII on Windows XP

[19:19:50 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> the more I think about this, I wonder where it should all go

[19:19:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Really, I'd rather just fix the bugs in the system

[19:20:01 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> perhaps I'll leave it for now as-is

[19:20:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> walk Jim through the process of pulling changes from my fork

[19:20:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Seems odd to have a branch just for a solutions repository

[19:21:05 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It's the kind of thing I imagine we might have thousands of, in due course

[19:22:15 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yes

[19:22:18 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> We just need to fix the real bugs

[19:22:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which involve:

[19:22:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> 1. A sensible matchmaker

[19:22:42 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> 2. Platform-specific parameterizations for solutions registry entries

[19:23:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I believe those are the only justifications for any of these branches I've been hacking around with

[19:23:06 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ah, Bosmon

[19:23:07 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> one question

[19:23:10 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> because I am so clueless

[19:23:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> yura has some kind of parameterization for where preferences are sourced from

[19:23:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> locally or on the server

[19:23:39 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> perhaps it's an environment variable?

[19:23:47 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> which the Flow Manager reads?

[19:23:58 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> It's one of these weird things in express

[19:24:08 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Which I believe ultimately resolves onto an environment variable, yes

[19:24:19 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Another thing which we need to do something about in due course

[19:24:50 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> He does it with a that.server.configure call

[19:25:26 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> FlowManager, line 131

[19:26:28 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I'm not sure what environment variable this gets resolved to

[19:26:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I believe it is called NODE_ENV

[19:26:48 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon>

[19:26:59 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> oh bizarre

[19:27:00 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> ok

[19:27:10 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Yes, pretty bizarre

[19:28:05 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> umm

[19:28:17 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> How do I set an environment variable in Windows?

[19:28:23 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> "set" (smile)

[19:28:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I mean, I know how to from the control panel

[19:28:27 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> cool

[19:28:46 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> once again, 12-year old Colin is laughing hysterically

[19:28:48 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> somewhere

[19:35:54 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Was he prone to that? : P

[19:35:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> hmm

[19:36:02 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Well, he was pretty mouthy

[19:36:21 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Looks like everything is working really smoothly for Jim

[19:36:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> or rather

[19:36:31 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> will be

[19:36:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> assuming I can get ahold of him

[19:36:45 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> so, Bosmon

[19:36:49 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> just to be sure

[19:37:09 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> is your impression that these config files

[19:37:24 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> say, config.demo_local.json

[19:37:30 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> are keyed by the NODE_ENV value?

[19:37:57 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> in other words

[19:38:13 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> set NODE_ENV=demo_local should cause the system to read preferences off the file system?

[19:38:32 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> That appears to be right

[19:38:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Although I wouldn't swear to it 100% since I have never done it

[19:40:11 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> it looks like it is the case

[19:41:14 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> okay, good

[19:41:16 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I now understand this system at least vaguely (wink)

[19:42:35 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> cool

[19:42:39 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> I'm off to dinner shortly

[19:42:46 CDT(-0500)] <Bosmon> Anything I can do/report quickly?

[20:18:26 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Bosmon: We're cool

[20:18:29 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> Jim's demo is all set

[20:18:34 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> everything works great on his machine

[20:18:37 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> thanks again, dude

[20:18:40 CDT(-0500)] <colinclark> I really appreciate it

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