\[09:11:02 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; Justin_o: how do you feel about different jslint declarations at the tops of files?</span>

\[09:11:22 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; michelled: that&#039;s fine i guess. what were you planning on chaining?</span>

\[09:11:59 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; Justin_o: Bosmon&#039;s last pull request changes the jslint options for the DataBinding.js file</span>

\[09:13:02 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; seems like he&#039;s made it consistent with FluidIoC which is not the same as Fluid.js</span>

\[09:13:32 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; Justin_o: I suppose when we are planning on releasing 1.5 we can talk about consolidating all of it or not</span>

\[09:13:46 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; if you&#039;re happy I&#039;m going to put this pull request in</span>

\[09:15:24 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; michelled: I think those changes to the jslint comment should be okay</span>

\[09:16:06 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; anastasiac: the pull request that I&#039;m looking at right now adds some new features to the framework - in particular it seems that &#039;backwash&#039; support (as Bosmon calls it) will be available to everyone using a change applier</span>

\[09:16:57 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;anastasiac&gt; thanks, michelled. There seem to be a few new(ish) things in the framework that need to be documented...</span>

\[09:17:29 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; yep, and Justin_o when we do get to a 1.5 we&#039;ll need to have some conversation around new APIs</span>

\[09:20:10 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; michelled: okay.. makes sense.. i wonder if you should file a blocker for that so we don&#039;t forget</span>

\[09:22:04 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; sure, I&#039;ll do that</span>

\[09:23:15 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; michelled: thanks</span>

\[09:40:15 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: do you happen to know much about optgroups and how AT&#039;s work with them</span>

\[09:40:42 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; There&#039;s a question in the jQuery UI channel about it?</span>

\[09:41:00 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; the &#034;?&#034; was a type-o <ac:emoticon ac:name="sad" /></span>

\[09:41:00 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: green">* clown trying to recall what optgroups are, Justin_o — something to do with &lt;select&gt; elements?</span>

\[09:41:10 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; <a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-author/the-optgroup-element.html" class="external-link" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-author/the-optgroup-element.html</a></span>

\[09:42:06 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; Justin_o:  is this new for HTML5?  Or were they present in HTML4</span>

\[09:42:07 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; ?</span>

\[09:42:34 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: not completely sure, but i think it&#039;s new to html5</span>

\[09:42:43 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: green">* clown wonders if browsers publish anything about them to the aapi...</span>

\[09:43:10 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; well, if it&#039;s new, then it&#039;s less likely that browser do anything with them vis-a-vis the aapi.</span>

\[09:44:04 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; to answer the question:  1. find out if browsers do publish anything regarding optgroups to the aapi.  2. If not, then AT&#039;s do anything with them, they would have to look directly at the DOM.</span>

\[09:44:27 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; oh, and 1a.  Do AT&#039;s use the info published to the aapi for optgroups?</span>

\[09:44:34 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: thanks.. looks like it was in html 4 as well</span>

\[09:48:49 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: what is the tool you use to check that again?</span>

\[09:52:08 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; morning avtar</span>

\[09:52:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;avtar&gt; key kasper</span>

\[09:52:51 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; ..so I&#039;m finally finding some time to look into the wysiwig for the wiki</span>

\[09:53:28 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; but forgot what distro I should install…</span>

\[09:53:50 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; something ubuntu, but 10.04 or something brand new like 11.10 or the like?</span>

\[09:54:47 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; Justin_o:  check the AAPI?  On GNOME I use Accerciser.  On WinXP, I use Accprobe.  Also, If your browser is FF, you can check using the DOMInspector plug-in.  The plug-in is slightly easier to use than the inspector apps.</span>

\[09:55:02 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; avtar ^</span>

\[09:55:05 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;avtar&gt; kasper: 10.04 should be fine</span>

\[09:55:14 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; coolio, thanks</span>

\[09:55:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;avtar&gt; if you use vagrant then it&#039;ll install that release by default</span>

\[09:55:21 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: thanks</span>

\[09:55:36 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: does the firefox plugin work on mac?</span>

\[09:55:37 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; oooh, nice</span>

\[09:55:41 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; less work for the kasper</span>

\[09:55:46 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; <ac:emoticon ac:name="smile" /></span>

\[09:55:48 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;avtar&gt; kasper: you might want to ping colin though</span>

\[09:56:26 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;avtar&gt; regarding mediawiki related work</span>

\[09:56:53 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;avtar&gt; i&#039;m not sure what the long term plans are for the wiki</span>

\[09:57:40 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: any chance you might like to help me write up wiki page one how to use those tools</span>

\[09:58:51 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; Justin_o:  a small chance…  Gotta go to a meeting in a couple minutes.  Can you give me an idea of the timeline?</span>

\[09:59:59 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: I&#039;d imagine that the jQuery ui guys would like to have something to look at asap.. Would it help if i got a page started, and then you can fill in the necessary details</span>

\[10:00:05 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; Oh, just saw this:  &#034;clown: does the firefox plugin work on mac?&#034;, Jusin_o.  Alas, nope — it works, but it does not show any a11y info.</span>

\[10:00:17 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;kasper&gt; avtar: yeah - I&#039;ll give him a poke once he gets on! thanks!</span>

\[10:00:42 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: i  was afraid of that.. oh well. by the way is it just me or does the Mac Accessibility inspector not show anything for safari</span>

\[10:00:44 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; ?</span>

\[10:01:13 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; Justin_o:  dunno.  I rarely use Safari.  And I never try to do anything with it in terms of a11y.</span>

\[10:01:22 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: <ac:emoticon ac:name="smile" /> okay</span>

\[10:01:31 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; maybe  I should...</span>

\[10:01:40 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; anyhow, meeting time.  bbl</span>

\[10:20:28 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown_mtg: I&#039;ve started a page at <a href="http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Browser+Accessibility+Inspection+Tools" class="external-link" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Browser+Accessibility+Inspection+Tools</a></span>

\[10:20:41 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; it&#039;s pretty basic at the moment</span>

\[10:36:19 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; fluid-everyone: couldn&#039;t get into adobe connect, my update is that I&#039;m working on decapod ui still.. have been a bit distracted by looking into tools for accessibility checking for jQuery Ui… started a wiki page for it <a href="http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Browser+Accessibility+Inspection+Tools" class="external-link" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Browser+Accessibility+Inspection+Tools</a></span>

\[11:42:30 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;clown&gt; Justin_o:  added some links and info about how to use Accerciser to that page.</span>

\[11:44:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: thanks</span>

\[11:45:21 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; clown: if you have any tips on what sort of things to be looking for and etc, when using those tools, you could add it to that page too</span>

\[12:23:35 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; jhung1 : I am Aashray, I have been experimenting with your GSoC idea of making an HTML5 image editor, is now a good time to talk about it with you?</span>

\[12:24:56 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; aashray: sure.</span>

\[12:25:49 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; Hi, I have been talking to Justin regarding the project and I have done a couple of demos related to it as well.</span>

\[12:26:29 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; Yes aashray I saw them. They look promising!</span>

\[12:26:36 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; Im not sure if you have seen the demos or not, but i wanted to talk to you if added certain functionality to it would be benificial</span>

\[12:26:53 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; great to hear that...</span>

\[12:27:26 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; so firstly Justin told me that you too have some ideas for the functionality that can be added</span>

\[12:28:23 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; I thought that adding Local Storage supports for saving an Editing Image (as shown in my demo) would be good, it would also easy the load on the server</span>

\[12:30:04 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; secondly i thought that given the GSoC time-frame , I feel I could add more functionality like Blur effects, drawing over the images, and applying more filters on the images</span>

\[12:33:38 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; aashray, give me a second to think.</span>

\[12:34:25 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; and another important query I had was, I&#039;m new to Fluid Infusion , actually I will be having a look at it today, so i wanted to know if this project would be integrated with it.</span>

\[12:34:30 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; sure</span>

\[12:36:05 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray&gt; I&#039;m sorry for the typos in my earlier messages... would you like me to retype them?</span>

\[12:39:48 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; aashray: as for functionality, since Decapod is concerned with digitization of books, tools related to fixing or improving photographed book pages will be beneficial.</span>

\[12:40:04 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; so tools like a clone / stamp tool would be good.</span>

\[12:40:27 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; oh okay ...</span>

\[12:40:34 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; Finer controls, undo / redo,</span>

\[12:40:50 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; alright.. yes that makes sense</span>

\[12:41:33 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; as for incorporating infusion, Decapod is a Fluid project and we try to use as many Infusion components as possible.</span>

\[12:41:48 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; where appropriate of course.</span>

\[12:42:03 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung1&gt; Justin_o would probably have a better idea of how that will fit together.</span>

\[12:43:52 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; oh okay .... so would you suggest that I start having a look at Infusion or do I concentrate on how to get done the existing requirements first</span>

\[12:44:02 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; aashray_: ideally you&#039;ll be making use of fluid infusion to write your code.</span>

\[12:44:30 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; oh alright</span>

\[12:47:34 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; alright, so I&#039;ll start going through fluidproject wiki and get familiar with Infusion</span>

\[12:47:44 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; over the next few days</span>

\[12:49:21 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; if I need any help understanding something or with the contributor license I will contact you</span>

\[12:50:56 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; I also had another doubt</span>

\[12:53:45 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; the modifications done on the Image, will need to be saved on the server, so does the back end for that also needs to be done along with this project or has that already been implemented previously?</span>

\[12:53:56 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; need*</span>

\[12:56:31 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; aashray_: While there is not specific server side implementation in place yet to receive the transformation data, it isn&#039;t necessary to make one. If you would like to make something simple as a demo or proof of concept you are more than welcome to.</span>

\[12:58:00 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; sure , I would be happy to do so</span>

\[13:02:02 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; Do you have any feedback on the demo or any advise on what i can work on in the next few days to make myself familiar and ready ?</span>

\[13:03:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; aashray_: in terms of infusion go through the documentation there and start to get a feel for what it is and how it works</span>

\[13:03:43 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; you can see the code at <a href="https://github.com/fluid-project/infusion" class="external-link" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/fluid-project/infusion</a></span>

\[13:04:20 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; sure, that&#039;ll be great, will get to it right away.</span>

\[13:05:09 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; aashray_: i think i sent you the links to some documentation pages, they should all be on our wiki though wiki.fluidprojecct.org</span>

\[13:05:16 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; wiki.fluidproject.org</span>

\[13:06:46 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; yes i have those links, will go through the documentation and see the source code as well, will try and get familiar with it as soon as possible</span>

\[13:07:13 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; Also, for the draft that I am making for this GSoC proposal , is there a specific template.. or a reference , that you would like me to follow?</span>

\[13:10:36 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; aashray_: not particularly.. there should be some info on GSoC site to help you with that though.. check this page out <a href="http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/" class="external-link" rel="nofollow">http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/</a></span>

\[13:15:44 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; yes .. thanks</span>

\[13:15:47 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; thanks a lot Justin_o and jhung</span>

\[13:16:22 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;aashray_&gt; I will work on the suggestions and help you gave me</span>

\[13:17:50 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; aashray_: no problem</span>

\[13:24:53 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jhung&gt; no problem aashray_</span>

\[14:31:26 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Bosmon: What do you know of math notation writing tools?</span>

\[14:50:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; jameswy - I know that one should use ones based on the TeX syntax and rendering engine <ac:emoticon ac:name="smile" /></span>

\[14:50:48 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; I know that the guy who runs the stackexchange.* site is particularly punctillious about how his stuff gets rendered</span>

\[14:50:56 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; And so has come up with some pretty good solutions</span>

\[14:51:08 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; Bosmon: do you know of any GUI tools?</span>

\[14:51:22 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Unfortunately it&#039;s one of those classic cases where none of the tools which are &#034;easy to use&#034; produce particularly good results</span>

\[14:51:49 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Bosmon: it&#039;s an inherently difficult problem.</span>

\[14:51:54 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; I don&#039;t... unfortunately there are as many good GUI tools for creating maths formulas as there are for creating good HTML markup : P</span>

\[14:52:19 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Interesting comparison...</span>

\[14:52:24 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Mm.</span>

\[14:52:43 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Microsoft probably spent a huge amount of resources producing the formula editor in Word, and at the end of the day what it produces is still pretty crummy</span>

\[14:52:51 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Agreed.</span>

\[14:52:56 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Even though it has lots of little boxes you can click in to make new things etc.</span>

\[14:53:00 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; MathType probably spent plenty too, and it&#039;s still terrible.</span>

\[14:53:07 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; And that&#039;s probably the most &#034;evolved&#034; GUI formula editor that I know of</span>

\[14:53:24 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; 40 years later, there really doesn&#039;t seem much alternative for learning how the TeX notation works</span>

\[14:53:32 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Which project is this in connection with?</span>

\[14:54:09 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Floe.</span>

\[14:54:15 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Specifically, the authoring tool.</span>

\[14:54:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Interesting</span>

\[14:54:43 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; I guess most of the formulas that our authors meet will be pretty simple ones</span>

\[14:55:14 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Bosmon: I was thinking that too, but they need it to be good for <strong>at least</strong> up to grade 12.</span>

\[14:55:19 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Perhaps we can provide a &#034;shallower slope&#034; that will get them up the onramp to TeX, with a few simple examples, and automatic handling of things like subscripts, superscripts, greek letters, etc with a palette based scheme</span>

\[14:55:36 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Anything more complicated than that we can just point them at some good TeX references</span>

\[14:55:56 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; And by that point, you&#039;d need more than just sub/superscripts and Greek signifiers... you&#039;d need integrals, differentials, matrices, iterative sums, a multitude of operators...</span>

\[14:56:15 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; After all, they&#039;ll need to figure out how to do it properly... after all, you can&#039;t even ask a question on math.stackexchange without some of these basic skills <ac:emoticon ac:name="smile" /></span>

\[14:56:24 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; We&#039;d be doing them a disservice if we didn&#039;t help them out in this area</span>

\[14:57:04 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; A very simple scheme would probably get us up to 8th grade or so</span>

\[14:58:56 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; TeX, being based on a kind of &#034;markup&#034;, also has the advantage of being inherently more accessible</span>

\[14:59:07 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; I believe there are a number of solutions around for &#034;speaking&#034; equations, etc.</span>

\[15:00:37 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Although as with most of these things, they&#039;re something you really need to get used to....</span>

\[15:00:48 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; &#034;Speaking superscripts in a higher pitched voice&#034;, etc : P</span>

\[15:01:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Yes.</span>

\[15:01:44 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; There are also some solutions around writing/mousing it out, and then OCR-ing it in.</span>

\[15:01:52 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; But I&#039;m not sure how accurate those solutions are.</span>

\[15:02:03 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; I&#039;d imagine they are awful</span>

\[15:03:20 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; The results from trying to understand the structure of a random mathematical formula from an OCR are going to be pretty messy.... although ironically, if you know that it was TeX that produced the image in the first place, you can often do quite well <ac:emoticon ac:name="smile" /></span>

\[15:04:28 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Bosmon: So, all we need to do is provide a constraint that users write in perfect TeX-like rendering?</span>

\[15:06:07 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; exactly</span>

\[15:07:55 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Wikipedia also uses TeX-based rendering, so getting authors familiar with this scheme I think is a basic part of preparing them as citizens dealing with mathematical content on the web, jameswy</span>

\[15:09:54 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; fluid-everyone: anyone see an issue with me pushing the video player branch to the project repo?</span>

\[15:09:54 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; Well.</span>

\[15:10:13 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; since we are now using pull requests instead of directly hacking it just seems to make sense to me</span>

\[15:10:50 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;jameswy&gt; I can&#039;t express how immensely happy users would be about this...</span>

\[15:12:37 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; yura, Bosmon: does primeCacheFromResources use demands.. i seem to be getting some errors in the console due to the template being fetched from the wrong path</span>

\[15:13:04 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Justin_o - it doesn&#039;t</span>

\[15:13:10 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; It is a &#034;well-known architectural fault&#034;</span>

\[15:13:25 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;yura&gt; :&#039;(</span>

\[15:14:00 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; that&#039;s so sad <ac:emoticon ac:name="sad" /></span>

\[15:14:14 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;yura&gt; :&#039;(</span>

\[15:15:02 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; yura, Bosmon: any good workarounds for that?</span>

\[15:15:49 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Justin_o - none really... you will just have to prime the cache for everything you can think of</span>

\[15:16:08 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; And live with the errors due to the ones which are not found</span>

\[15:16:15 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; Bosmon: okay, but it will still show errors in the console</span>

\[15:16:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; okay</span>

\[15:16:31 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Also, you can just disuse primeCacheFromResources entirely</span>

\[15:16:38 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; It doesn&#039;t actually do anything particularly subtle</span>

\[15:16:58 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; And I think we discovered in CSpace that the few milliseconds advantage it gives you in an &#034;early start&#034; are not enormously valuable</span>

\[15:17:14 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; So you might decide to just wait until enough of your component has initialised so that you know what templates you need</span>

\[15:17:21 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; This is why UIOptions, for example, is designed the way it is</span>

\[15:17:27 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; With a &#034;templateLoader&#034; component at top level</span>

\[15:29:32 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; Bosmon: okay.. maybe i&#039;ll just drop primeCacheFromResources for now</span>

\[15:44:33 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;michelled&gt; alexn, anastasiac, cindyli: can we meet at 4:00 tomorrow to assess our progress and task next week&#039;s work?</span>

\[15:44:50 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;anastasiac&gt; sure</span>

\[15:44:53 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;cindyli&gt; ok, michelled</span>

\[15:46:57 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; Bosmon, yura: can you use amalgamateClasses without primeCacheFromResources..</span>

\[15:47:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; since it doesn&#039;t seem to find my templates from the subcomponents</span>

\[15:47:18 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Justin_o - yes, it is fine</span>

\[15:47:39 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Justin_o - &#034;find&#034;?</span>

\[15:48:16 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Our standard solution for this at the moment is to position any components which deal with templates as supercomponents, rather than as subcomponents</span>

\[15:48:31 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; In this way you can match the load order of I/O to the creation order of components</span>

\[15:49:14 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; Bosmon: what should i do in the case where i have a set of renderer components that fetch their own templates</span>

\[15:49:25 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Justin_o - you must make sure that they are somehow fetched first</span>

\[15:49:33 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; If it is not done by primeCache, it needs to be done by some other means</span>

\[15:49:37 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; i.e. by you : P</span>

\[15:49:44 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; currently these are all subcomponents.. and i was trying to use amalgamateClasses to fetch all the templates in the parent component</span>

\[15:49:50 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Justin_o - yes, that&#039;s right</span>

\[15:49:59 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; okay, but it isn&#039;t fetching them <ac:emoticon ac:name="sad" /></span>

\[15:50:02 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; but you need to push the information about what the path of the template is up into a separate component</span>

\[15:50:13 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; okay.. how do i do that</span>

\[15:50:17 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Essentially, from the point of view of the components, the template needs to be fetched twice</span>

\[15:50:29 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Well, look at UIOptions.js for an example of this &#034;templateLoader&#034; pattern</span>

\[15:50:43 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; At the very top level is a component which holds all paths for templates</span>

\[15:50:58 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; It ensures they are all fetched first, and only then does the rest of the subtree start to constrct</span>

\[15:51:01 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; construct</span>

\[15:51:17 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; After that, the renderer component makes use of the SAME URL injected down into it from the templateLoader</span>

\[15:51:28 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; But this time, when it asks for it to be fetched, it is fetched synchronously, since it is now in the cache</span>

\[15:52:58 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; okay.. i see.. makes sense.. I don&#039;t suppose i could get the path from the subcomponent instead of the other way around..</span>

\[15:53:44 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; since i figure the subcomponent should know where it&#039;s own template is</span>

\[15:53:52 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; Bosmon: ^</span>

\[15:54:09 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Justin_o - you can&#039;t get the path from the subcomponent since it hasn&#039;t constructed yet</span>

\[15:54:22 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; And if it constructs, it must have the markup already present</span>

\[15:54:31 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; Bosmon: it&#039;s impossible then</span>

\[15:54:35 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; yura was complaining of just this issue in the other channel</span>

\[15:54:44 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; But until we have RENDERER ANTIGENS, it is impossible</span>

\[15:55:06 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; Once that part of the framework is finished, we will have two-phase construction possible for renderer components</span>

\[15:55:37 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; But since the construction is now just single-phase, we need to take care of all of these ordering issues manually</span>

\[15:56:01 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Justin_o&gt; Bosmon: cool.. this future version sounds really great.. until then though i&#039;ll go with the manual management</span>

\[15:56:07 CDT(-0500)\] <span style="color: black"> &lt;Bosmon&gt; At least in this case, there is a kind of semi-natural way of using IoC createOnEvent to do the scheduling, but it still means pulling the template information up out into a separate component</span>